I have 4 questions for you....lol...not that you're not already busy enough!!
1. What do you mean when you write : "3/8 t Instant Yeast (that’s 1/4 t plus half of that again)" Are you instructing to use 1/4 tsp + 1/8 tsp of SAF yeast?
2. Can we substitute bread flour for ALP flour? (I have a ton of bread flour but no ALP flour left....and I'm too pooped to go shopping again!)
3. Is there a difference in taste between Dark Rye and Light Rye?
4. I don't like caraway seeds? Can I use poopy instead? Any better or other suggestions that mix well with Rye?
Hope you are having a lovely day....it's very warm here in Toronto today...currently 66 degrees!!
Marilyn Toronto, Canada
Breadtopia
· 1 year ago
Hi Marilyn,
This isn't my recipe but I think I can answer most of your questions anyway.
Yes, 1/4 plus 1/8 tsp SAF. Yes, use bread flour. I like it better. Dark rye is stronger tasting. Caraway is a very traditional flavor for rye. I like anise seed too in rye. Otherwise you can anything you want but I'm not sure what else is "normal" for rye. Maybe a little molasses?
Gorgeous here in Iowa too but the axe will fall tomorrow.
Breadtopia
· 1 year ago
I forgot to mention another ingredient I'm particularly fond of in Rye bread - orange zest. I don't know if it's a particularly Swedish thing, but I often see it called for in Swedish Rye Limpa (bread) recipes.
Marilyn
· 1 year ago
How much orange zest do you suggest for this particular recipe? Do you have a specific type of orange in mind? What is the purpose of the orange zest? Does it add to the flavour or to the texture?
Also, I forgot to ask before, do you still coat the loaf with wheat bran as in the original no-knead recipe? Or do you coat with the seeds? Or a combination of both?
I haven't decided on the seeds yet....don't like caraway, or anise! You didn't say whether you thought poppy would work with rye....would it? What about sesame? Any other seeds you could suggest? I could always leave the seeds out of course, I just wanted the loaf to be more interesting then just plain rye.
Sorry for all the questions...."details" are important to me....that's why I procrastinate a lot....lol...!
Thanx again Eric, you're a great help to a novice like me! Marilyn Toronto, Canada
Breadtopia
· 1 year ago
The zest from one orange of no particular kind. It's for the flavor.
You can use bran or seed or a combination to prevent sticking.
As soon as you start substituting ingredients in a recipe, the recipe starts to change. Substitute enough ingredients and before long, it's not the same recipe. Go ahead and use whatever you want in this and see if you like it. I have no idea what "works" or not. It's a matter of personal taste.
Marilyn
· 1 year ago
Eric,
One more email....I promise! I know that this is not your recipe, but just asking for your expertise.
My dad's mom was a bread baker back in Portugal. My dad told me that I should add some olive oil to my bread recipes because that is what he saw his mom doing. Also, my Portuguese mother-in-law says that a bread baker's secret ingredient is sugar.
My question to you, can/would it hurt if I added some olive oil to this rye bread recipe. If so, how much?
What about the sugar thingy....I've heard this said before by other Portuguese folk....most recently my very alert and active 90yr old aunt!! Any ideas about sugar? How much?
My 1st Rye loaf is proofing as we speak so, there is no rush here to answer me. Once I started measuring, I also noticed that there is little rye in this recipe in comparison to ALP flour. Can you knock up the rye a little?? If so, what would you suggest?
When you have time, I'd appreciate your input!
marilyn
Breadtopia
· 1 year ago
Those are all interesting questions.
You can certainly try adding olive oil to the dough. I'm not sure how it could hurt exactly. It might add some flavor and soften the crust. It supposedly adds to the shelf life of bread too. As for quantity, I would think add a Tbs or two and see what happens.
Add sugar if you like a sweeter tasting bread. It will give the yeast more to feed on so may help with the rise. But if you're not having a problem with rise then it's just a question of your preference for sweetness and whether or not you want more calories in your diet.
Sure, knock up the rye a little. Experiment and see what works for you. Rye has very little gluten so the more you use as a percentage of the total flour, the more dense the bread is likely to be.
Joe Valencic
· 1 year ago
Marilyn,
Sorry that Eric had to answer all your questions on my recipe, but as usual, he nailed all the answers as I would. I would just add one thing to his comments since you're set on making additions and/or substitutions to the recipe, and this is something I do as a matter of routine with a new recipe. Make it once according to the recipe to see if you like the end result. If you like it, then you can start to tweak it to meet your particular taste, but if you start changing it before trying it according to the base recipe, then you may be disappointed, and it won't be the fault of the original recipe.
Seasoned bakers can look at a recipe and pretty much tell how it's going to come out. I have made well over 100 loaves of no-knead bread of many varieties, and I can look at a new no-knead recipe and give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. BUT, I couldn't do that when I first started making bread. So, try the base recipe, do research on what different ingredients in bread do for the bread (tons of free info on the Internet), and then you can start experimenting on your own. Do a Google search for bread making ingredients, and learn in depth what each does before adding it to your recipe.
Lastly, you seemed disappointed at the low amount of rye flour in this recipe. Rye and wheat flours are heavy flours that do not raise well, which is why I increased the yeast to 3//8 t. If you want more fiber (rye or wheat) read up on using Vital Wheat Gluten as an alternative to increasing the yeast for leavening.
So much to learn, so little time. Hope this helps, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Joe
Marilyn
· 1 year ago
Hi Joe,
Thank you so much for your generous email. I did make my first Rye loaf and followed your recipe. The only change was with the caraway seeds. I don't much like caraway and so I just used them as a coating on the crust. The caraway gave off a nice aroma while it baked, but all the seeds fell off easily. I just had to pick up the loaf and a bunch fell off. Opps! I only proofed for 15 hours (did not time it out properly as I forgot that I had an appointment to go to at the 18 hr mark). So, it was either proof for 15 hrs or 22 hrs, so I chose the first. My rise was very high in fact and I was really happy with the end result. Not only did it taste great, my 4 yr old, 18 mnth old and husband ate it no problem!
This no-knead baking is great, it is really satisfying watching your family eat your freshly baked loaf of bread, especially since it is so easy and you know your ingredients.
Having baked many loaves yourself, you must have tried Eric's Steel Cut Oats recipe. It is one of my favourites!!! It is healthy, tasty and easy to make! I bake it, slice and freeze it and then toast the individual slices when we’re ready to eat them. One loaf (round or oblong) can last for over 1 week….great for the kids’ breakfasts and snacks.
I really liked your rye loaf and will continue making it as your recipe instructs when I make it for the kids. However, I would like a denser, wetter loaf with more rye. By how much should I increase the Rye? Your recipe calls for 3 cups of flour in total. Do I just keep the 3 cups maximum and just fiddle around with the proportion of rye to wheat? Would 3 cups of Rye be edible? Would it bake ok? Should I decrease the yeast a bit? (I use SAF instant yeast and bake in either a round or oblong La Cloche at 500 degrees for 30 minutes covered and 475 degrees for 15-25 minutes uncovered). I'd like to make this for my dad. He really likes those heavy, dense, wet Rye bread loaves that come already thinly sliced and packaged in a plastic bag (often Hungarian, German brands). What do you recommend?
Again, thank you for all your help! Marilyn Toronto, Canada
Beth (from Florida)
· 1 year ago
Hi Marilyn,
I have a suggestion for you, for a denser, wetter loaf. Make a Corn Rye! You do this by adding corn meal (cooked first) and some mashed potatoes. Very traditional Eastern European. Experiment with the quantities, but here's a rough guide for mine:
4 C flour (2 1/2 AP or bread flour and 1 1/2 Rye or any combo you prefer)
1 TBSP instant yeast
1 -2 TBSP wheat gluten if you use AP flour (1 TBSP for each C of rye flour, approximately - not necessary if you use Bread Flour)
1 C mashed potatoes (use a ricer or whipped - no lumps!)
1/2 C cold water 6 TBSP corn meal 1 C boiling water
1 TBSP vinegar (I really like Seasoned Rice Vinegar)
Kosher salt 2 TBSP olive oil
caraway seeds (optional for you)
mix the 1/2 C cold water and the corn meal together in a saucepan. Add the 1 C boiling water and cook over medium/high heat, for 2 minutes, stirring constantly. Take it off heat and stir in the 2 TBSP olive oil. Let cool down to room temp. Stir in the vinegar.
Mix together the flours, wheat gluten, salt, the yeast, then add in the mashed potatoes. Mix in the cooled down corn mush. It will be kind of dry, but don't worry, it will hydrate a lot while resting in the refrigerator.
Grease a bowl or plastic container, dump in the dough, grease the top, cover it and let it rest overnight. Take it out 1-2 hours before you want to bake it. I form it into a round loaf shape right out of the refrigerator, then let it rise at room temperature until I think the dough is no longer cold inside. I recommend at least 1 hour. Watch out it doesn't over proof, since there is a lot of yeast working.
Then, use the standard NKB technique; bake in preheated covered dutch oven for 30 minutes, then uncover and bake for 15 minutes more. Check the internal temperature and make sure you are not going over 200 degrees. You need to bake it uncovered for a total of about 20-30 minutes and you do NOT want the temperature to go over 210 (at which point the water will boil and you will get gummy texture) So, if you check it at 15 minutes (uncovered) and the internal temp is up around 195+, turn down the oven to 350 so you can bake an additional 10-15 minutes and get up to 210, but not over.
Many people put a glaze on it, and then sprinkle with caraway seeds. I don't, as I like them inside.
Figuring out how much extra time you need to bake the loaf is a combo of how cold the interior dough still is (hopefully, not cold), how wet your dough is, and also how tall your loaf is. If you put it into a constraining pan for it's rise phase, and it rises up, not spreads out, it will take longer to bake, than if you let it rise on a flat surface, it spreads out, and even with oven spring, your loaf is only 2 inches high.
HTH,
beth (baking in Florida mostly)
Eileen McKown
· 1 year ago
I just made my first loaf of rye bread according to your recipe using bread flour instead of all purpose. However, the loaf was very wet after baking for an hour. I put it back in the oven for another 10 minutes later on in the day and it was still wet so I was so dissapointed I threw it out. I do not have a clay baker and put the dough into a metal loaf pan - was that my problem?
Hope you can help me as I love rye bread. Thanks
E McKown, Clearwater, Fl
Joe Valencic
· 1 year ago
Eileen,
First, no-knead bread recipes are meant to be baked in covered vessels like dutch ovens, Pyrex bowls with lids and Corningware casserole dishes of 3.5 qt capacity ad larger. Ordinary bread pans are not an acceptable alternative, and without more specifics about time, temperature and adherence to the recipe, I can't venture a guess as to why you had such poor results from this very forgiving recipe. I might suggest going back to the base video on the homepage, and review the procedures.
Joe
Dave the Novice
· 1 year ago
Eileen, I think Joe is right. I addition to watching the video again, I would recommend that you pick an appropriate cooking vessel and try the basic recipe with white flour. AP is just fine. Just pick the heaviest oven-safe pot you own that has a lid. Heavier is better, tight-fitting is better, but most anything that closes will work. Once you are successful with the basic recipe, it will be easier to branch out into variations like the rye, because you'll know what the dough should look and feel like at each stage.
Good luck,
Dave
Catherine
· 1 year ago
Hi Eric, I've been having fun and success beyond my expectations. I made my first rye loaf last night. Yum! Here's what I did: 1 ½ C (7 ½ ozs) Rye Flour 3 2/5 C (8 ½ ozs) Bread or Never Bleached AP Flour 1 ½ tsp salt 1-2 Tbl Caraway seeds ground or whole ½ C sour dough starter (mine is very dry) 1 ½ C luke warm pure water Follow No Knead basic recipe. Dough should barely incorporate water with starter diluted in it. Let rise until doubled in any combination of counter top and fridge. I set aside dough on counter top for 3 hours, then fridge for 24 hours, then counter top for another 8 hours. Scrape dough onto floured surface, fold then rest for 15 minutes. Cut off 1/3 of dough for top braid (optional), lightly shape into log and place in parchment lined loaf pan. Braid extra piece of dough, place on top of loaf and let rise for another 90mins in warm placed covered with either greased plastic or linen towel (a microwave with the light on is ideal) Preheat oven to 350` for another 30mins. Bake for 60mins, tenting loaf after 30-40mins (don’t let top get too brown before tenting) or until interior temperature is 190-200` Another test is tapping bottom of loaf, hollow sound indicates doneness. Let cool for 5mins, brush butter over top for shiny finish. Let cool another hour. Enjoy. Catherine
Harvey (The EX Bread Klutz)
· 1 year ago
This is great. I have gone from hapless to experimental in only 3 loaves. I even converted a 'pre packaged beer bread' mix that I got as a gift to a no knead.
Today I tried a rye bread. I used your basic no knead rye recipe. Feeling experimental I added 1/3 cup of starter to the recipe along with the 1/4 tsp SAF instant yeast. (OOPS) Being an onion rye lover I put 1/4 cup caramelized onion pieces in the dough. (Then I found the page where someone else did the same thing) This one doubled in just under 3 hours at room temp. I quickly put it in the fridge overnight. Today I let it sit at room temp for 3 hours before turning it out onto the counter and giving it a few turns and folds as in the C.I. method. put it in the brotform and in 2 hours it filled the basket (doubled) Baked for 30 min 500 covered, 15 minutes uncovered at 400 then 15 minutes oven off and door ajar as in Rick's recipe. The crust came out great, the crumb is moist and has a good texture. The weiredest part is, the caramelized onion gave the loaf a 'sweet' taste in spite of the sourdough starter. All in all, a very successful experiment. My number 1 critic (my wife) gave it a 'thumbs up' Thanks for a really great site. I look forward to new recipes.
Harvey
· 1 year ago
Eric, Okay,,, I consider my rye bread a success.. (looks and tastes great). Now I have a question. Considering the fact that I over did the leavening by using both a starter and some instant yeast, this bread more than doubled in just under 4 hours at room temp. If I had just punched it down and put it in the proofing basket for a second rise and then tried to bake it, would that have worked? I put it in the fridge and slowed down the rise overnight under the impression that the flavor needed some to develop. Am I mistaken?
Breadtopia
· 1 year ago
Hi Harvey,
If you're going to have a problem, there are much worse ones. :) It's nice when your "mistakes" still look and taste great.
Punching down again might have worked given how lively it was. But the fridge technique is a better one.
MIKEE
· 1 year ago
I'VE BEEN MAKING LO KNEAD BREADS IN SASSAFRAS OBLONG COVERED VESSELS FOR ABOUT A MONTH . I AM GENERALLY VERY PLEASED WITH THE RESULTS. I USE BLEACHED BREAD FLOWER I PURCHASED AT COSCO FOR $16 FOR 50 POUNDS. I CAN'T SEEM TO USE IT UP. I USE 2 POUNDS OF FLOWER 2.25 CUPS OF WATER (THE 3 OR MORE CUPS CALLED FOR IN THE RECIPE SEEMS TO BE MUCH TOO WET) 3/4 TEASPOON OF SAF,1 TABLESPOON SALT, 1 TABLESPOON HONEY BLENDED WITH THE WATER. THIS MAKES 2 LARGE LOAVES. I USE PARCHMENT TO LOWER THE LOAF INTO THE HOT CLAY VESSEL. THIS METHOD WORKS GREAT. MY QUESTIONS ARE THE FOLLOWING. EVEN THOUGH I HAVE USED KING ARTHUR UNBLEACHED AND BLEACHED BREAD FLOWER THE INTERIOR LOAF IS NOT THAT WHITE, LIKE ITALIAN BREAD FROM THE GROCERY STORE. WHAT CAN I DO IF ANYTHING TO MAKE A WHITER COLOR. THE LOAF SEEMS SOMEWHAT HEAVY. NOT LIKE A BRICK BUT NOT LIGHT LIKE THE $1.59 ITALIAN BREAD AT THE SUPERMARKET. WHAT CAN I DO TO MAKE A LIGHTER DENSITY THAT STILL HAS A CRUNCHY CRUST.BUT IN CONCLUSION I WILL SAY EVERYONE IVE GIVEN A LOAF CANNOT BELIEVE I MADE IT AND IT IS NOT FROM A BAKERY.
Joe Valencic
· 1 year ago
Mikee,
Flour will naturally whiten as it ages, but this can be a costly process. In manufacturing we called it "sitting on inventory," and I've read that naturally aged bread flour performs somewhat better than fresh flour. You'll have to Google that one for yourself.
King Arthur Flour ages its flour naturally, which is why you pay more (almost twice) for their product. The endosperm in the flour has a natural yellow pigment which whitens over time as it is exposed to the atmosphere, and their flour will give a whiter appearance to your bread. Some flour manufacturers speed up this whitening process using chemical bleaching, and they can also speed up the aging process using potassium bromate.
Personally, I don't want either product in my bread or baked goods if I have a choice, and I don't care that the color is not brilliant white.
Your finished loaves may be off color (you don't say what color they are) from the long fermentation process. If you have well water with lot's of minerals in it, that will alter the color. Eric recommends purified water, but filtered water will work as well if that's your situation. Your honey is also a factor in color, especially if it's a dark honey. One tablespoon can easily alter the color of 2# of flour.
Lastly, I'm curious about your formula. I often make a double recipe by weight, and here is my formula:
2# All purpose flour (unbleached & unbromated) 3/8 teaspoon SAF Instant Yeast 1 Tablespoon salt 26 oz. water
Your formula only calls for 18 oz of water, but even if you add in the 1 T OF Honey as liquid, you are still at only 53% hydration. Your dough is SUPPOSED to be slack, with 75-80% hydration as the norm. If your fingers don't get sticky from handling this dough, it's not wet enough. It's NOT supposed to be like ordinary bread dough. Also, the sugar in the honey will speed up the fermentation process, so you need 50% less yeast than you are now using.
Go back to the base video and follow the recipe and the process exactly as shown, and your finished product should improve. Oh, and don't be concerned with the color. It's not important. If you want snow white crumb, you'll have to go to the grocery store and buy bread that's made to look pretty. But be prepared for all the additives and preservatives that go into it so it can sit on the shelf and not spoil quickly in your bread box.
Joe
MIKEE
· 1 year ago
DEAR JOE, I FOLLOWED YOUR ADVICE WITH GREAT RESULTS, I NOW USE 2 POUNDS CONAGRA BLEACHED BREAD FLOUR. 22 OZ FILTERED WATER. 3/8 TEASPOON SAF,1 TABLESPOON CORN SYRUP. 1 TBL SALT.THE BREAD IS MUCH LIGHTER AND MORE WHITE INSIDE. AS FAR AS THE WHITNESS GOES, I THOUGHT SOMBODY MIGHT GIVE ME ADVICE FOR EXAMPLE ADD A TBL SPPON OF DRIED MILK POWDER OR COFFEEMATE BUT MY BREADS LOOK BAKERY COLOR AND I AM HAPPY AS IS. I RECEIVED A PERFORATED FRENCH BREAD DOUBLE LOAF PAN, THE BREAD COMES OUT BETTER THAN THE CLAY VESSEL AND IS MUCH EASIER TO MAKE BREAD WITH THE PERFORATED PAN. I DO HOWEVER MIST THE LOAVES WHILE BAKING WITH ERIC'S OIL SPRAYER FILLED WITH WATER. THIS MAY BE FAR AFIELD BUT THAT SPRAYER WHEN USED WITH WESSON OIL CLOGS AFTER A DAY,THEN IT NO LONGER MISTS BUT SQUIRTS LIKE A WATER GUN. IT IS A PAIN TO HAVE TO EMPTY IT CLEAN IT AFTER EACH USE. SO FOR NOW IT IS DOINGWATER MISTING.
Joe Valencic
· 1 year ago
Mikee,
I'm glad your results are better by going back to the base recipe, even though you've cut the hydration to less than 70%. What's the reason you are adding sweeteners to this bread? Do you realize you are accelerating the fermentation process with the sugars? Personally, I would rather add sweetener after the bread is baked, something like jelly, jam or even fresh honey.
The French bread pan is made for french bread, and cannot give the same results as a covered vessel. If it works for you and you're happy, that's great, but you appear fixated on making this recipe under your own terms and conditions without making it exactly as the recipe describes.
I have a water bottle dedicated to spaying the inside of my oven and spraying bread. I use the oil mister with EVOO without problem. Maybe it's the Wesson.
Lastly, please turn off your caps. All capital letters mean that you are angry or that you are screaming.
MIKEE
· 1 year ago
I AM NOT FLAMING, BUT AS TO EVERYTHING ELSE GUILTY AS CHARGED.
MIKEE
· 1 year ago
Dear Joe. As to the sweeteners. i saw a few italian bread recipes with 1 Tbl spoon honey and i thought that it does add a little pleasant taste to the bread . but could you tell me the downside of speeding up the fermantation? i guess if its counter productive i could leave it out. with reference to the pan. i also put a pan of water below to boil during the preheat which seemed to give off a good amount of steam during the bake. even though the science behind the clay vessel cannot be denied, i seemed to get a lighter loaf thin but crunchy crust and large crumb.also the pan let me form the loaf and let it final rise in the pan and did not require transfering it to the hot Sassafras.
Dave the Novice
· 1 year ago
I have had the same problem as Mikee with oil sprayers. I have owned two, and both soon began squirting, rather than spraying. I only ever used EVOO in them.
MIKEE
· 1 year ago
Dear Joe, Even though I think you got a little miffed at me for being such a maverick by adjusting the recipes a little, that was not my intention. In that spirit here is another politically incorrect notion I've been entertaining. Even though i am very happy how these breads come out, and more importantly the taste and crunchy texture. I have found after about 8 to 10 hours after cooling, the bread is getting hard on the outside. Storing the bread in a plastic or paper bag increases shelf life but lets the crust lose its crispness. My breadbox only did a little better. so searching google for " bread storage" a common theme was to just wrap the loaf in a clean linen napkin. this helped a little more and did keep the crust a little crisper.but after 12 hours i find the bread somewhat stale. its true that a quick few minutes in the oven did the trick, but is inconvenient. So what i am trying to say is i would like to have a little more shelf life. I hasten to add if I ask about preservatives Eric might make a citizens arrest. King Arthur sells Diastatic Malt Powder. they say i teaspoon added to the recipe makes the yeast work better and longer and increase shelf life.do you no anything of this item. Is this a preservative. and is it useful. thanks Joe for all of your advise which i value highly and look forward to a reply from you. p.s the reason for all caps in my previous posts is because i am using a I-phone for these posts and it is hard to type on that thing.
MIKEE
· 1 year ago
My poor spelling and grammer i have no excuse.
Alex
· 1 year ago
Not sure what went wrong, mixed everything up let it sit 18 hrs came back and dough was not dough very wet and sticky, too wet to handle it just poured out of the bowl, maby I need more flour or less water?
Thanks, Alex Englewood,CO
Joe Valencic
· 1 year ago
Mikee,
Bread storage is a no win topic for me, because I know that each area of the country experiences different climates, and each home has somewhat different internal environmental conditions. To make a broad recommendation would certainly bring challenges from other areas of the country, and in the case of this website, from other parts of the WORLD! Now that that is out of the way I will tell you this. All of my no-knead breads last me about 4-5 days and are eaten by that time. I have no experience with shelf life beyond that time frame, save my tried & true method of cutting the breads into slices and storing them in a plastic bag in the freezer. I remove as many slices as needed, then nuke them to thaw them out. You'll notice I don't give a time in the nuke, and that's because different microwave ovens have different levels of intensity. 20 second in one oven would require only 15 in another, and 35 in yet another. You need to find this out on your own. You can also thaw them in a toaster oven if you wish.
The only time you will get perfect crumb and crust is the day you make the bread. If that's critically important to you I would suggest baking daily and you will be a happy guy. Once it goes in a plastic bag the crust softens. Since I toast most of my bread, the crust re-crisps in the toaster. Flavor is most important to me, and I've learned to live with less than perfect crust. There are too many more important things in life to be concerned about, like fishing or taking a well deserved afternoon nap.
I rotate my finished bread stock in my freezer so that there is never a loaf older than about 10-14 days in there. In my opinion this insures that when you thaw out the bread it will be in very good condition to be served, or to be given to someone as a gift.
I do not use any commercial preservatives in any of my breads. The only preservatives are natural oils, butter and salt, which serve to extend the shelf life a bit longer than without them. If you really want long shelf life, you might as well just buy the store bread which list way too many ingredients for my liking. My breads have flour (unbleached and unbromated), water, salt, yeast, and optionally butter, olive oil, sugar, eggs, whole grain cereals, nuts & seeds and dried fruits. If I have a hard time pronouncing an ingredient, I'm pretty sure I don't want it in my bread or my body. I'm not interested in bread that will live longer on the shelf than I will. Personally, I believe lots of these shelf life chemicals and preservatives are causing more problems that they are doing any good. IMO, if you want to have something last longer, it will probably kill you sooner. that's just my opinion.
I don't know if that answers your storage question adequately, but that's what my experiences have been. In a nutshell, if you can't eat the whole loaf in 3-5 days, freeze half of it and it will be just fine. Otherwise, bake daily and the bread will be as perfect as you can make it.
Joe
Joe Valencic
· 1 year ago
Alex,
If you follow the recipe, you will get a shaggy dough that cannot be kneaded by hand. This is the nature of all No-Knead breads. You don't need to alter the recipe at all, just follow it and it will come out fine for you. I would suggest you watch the original No-Knead video that Eric made so you recall what the dough is supposed to look like after 12-18 hours. If you begin to alter the recipe you will either get a brick or soup for dough, and you will not be happy with the results.
Patience, my friend, patience. As I've told others, do exactly as a recipe says and when you've got that dialed in you can start to experiment with it. Of course, when you see how good it comes out you may want to just leave it alone and enjoy the bread.
Joe
Alex
· 1 year ago
Joe, Thank you for responding, I have watched all the videos and followed the recipe, I think I was a little careless with my measurements and didnt have enough flour, beacuse my second attempt turned out great :) Thank you, Alex
I took a couple of pictures but not sure how to post them I guess Ill send them to breadtopia.
I added to the recipe Cranberry-Pecan Extraordinair the Zest from one orange. The Zest is the thin outer rind, I then chopped it up into small pieces and added it to the dry mix. The results ave been fantastic the little bit of orange flavor gives the bread a flavor that is unmatched.
Bob Packer
· 1 year ago
Dick, I cannot get the link to post here.
Email me at my address directly and I will send it to you.
It's regular white wheat flour only with a high protein content. All purpose flour runs about 9-11% protein and bread flour about 14%.
The packaging usually indicates if it's bread flour. If not, you can tell by the number of grams of protein per serving on the nutritional contents label. Only I can't remember off hand what those figures look like for bread flour vs all purpose.
Bob Packer
· 12 months ago
There should be a small label area that lists the protein content. It will say something like 30 grams per quarter cup. Multiple that figure by 4 to get the protein content. Most of mine is 30 grams X 4 = 12 percent.
When I run out of bread flour for a recipe that "requires" bread flour, I add Vital Wheat Gluten to the All Purpose flour.
Bob
ray
· 11 months ago
just baked my 2nd loaf in the la cloche and it's fantastic,thanks ..do you have any black bread recipes??? thanks again ray
tony
· 11 months ago
does the la clloche need to be season the first time you use it ?????
Breadtopia
· 11 months ago
Not for baking bread. I've never seasoned mine... in 15 years.
tony
· 11 months ago
can i add molasses to the rye nkb recipie??? thanks
Breadtopia
· 11 months ago
Sure. A little molasses would probably be good.
kellymo
· 11 months ago
Have made the no-knead recipe a few dozen times by now, and used this recipe for my first rye variation last weekend. It was perfect - probably my favorite no-knead yet. Tomorrow's rye dough is hanging out on the countertop now - thanks!
Ellen
· 11 months ago
Hello. Eric, I love your video's and your site. You helped me a lot. If I may I have very basic questions. What is "over proof" and its consequences? What is "oven spring", its effect on cooked bread, and how to achieve the best one? As a rule my bread is rising horizontally. I made the "Sicilian bread". It came out OK, but it was heavy, wide, looking like flat cylinder. Any suggestion, how to improve my technique, please? Thank you.
Breadtopia
· 11 months ago
Hi Ellen,
Over proofing is letting the dough rise too long so that the yeast consumes too much of the available nutrients and the dough starts to lose some of its rise or at least doesn't rise more when baked.
Oven spring is the rapid increase in the volume of a bread during the first few minutes of baking. I find I get the best oven spring when I place the proofed dough in a hot oven before the dough has reached its maximum rise. Before it has over proofed ;).
The wetter the dough, the more it has a tendency to flatten out. You can stiffen up the dough by adding more flour at the beginning of the recipe.
Stefanie
· 11 months ago
I have made my own sour dough starter and used your recipe with pineapple juice. Since this was the first time I produced my own starter in this house, I guess it even works well if you don't have any life cultures floating in the air... Thank You so much for posting this worry-free recipe!
MIKEE
· 11 months ago
I sometimes use an egg white or a beaten egg with a few drops of water. i brush it on before baking so seeds will stick and iit gives the loaf a glaze. my questions are, i assume i should apply the egg wash before baking. is this right? can you recomend anything other than egg for a glaze and help keeping the seeds to stay put. thanks mike
Janet Kelly
· 11 months ago
Just discovered your web site last week, but discovered no knead bread just last year. If the recipe is followed, it's a no fail recipe. If people insist on "improving" it before they've mastered the recipe, they haven't given themselves an opportunity to understand the process. Today I made two loaves, using my own sourdough starter in one of them and instant yeast in the other. Both look identical but the diifference is taste is quite distinctive. Have you addressed what happens if the fermentation process is speeded up by adding more yeast or starter? The slow fermentation is what gives it the flavour. I am a home baker but also run a very successful scratch bakery. I am not one of the bakers in my business, but I experiment at home where I won't get under the feet of the workers who are busy pumping out hundreds of loaves every day while I work on my one perfect loaf on my days off. I then try to bring what I've learned to my bakers who do not always immediately embrace my opinions. I became a baker by default many years ago when my first baker left to start her own bakery and I was left to pick up the pieces. I learned the craft, passed it on and got back to running my business, but I'm still passionate about bread and always willing to swap experiences.
Breadtopia
· 10 months ago
Hi Mikee,
A bit late here in responding. I was hoping someone else who knows of other ways would answer. Egg wash might be the most effective way but I know some use just water or milk. And yes, it's applied before baking.
Dorothy Chan
· 10 months ago
Re: Molasses in Rye Bread I just made a loaf using 5-1/2 oz. of dark rye flour and 10 oz. of non-bleached A/P flour, 3/8 tsp of yeast, 1/4 cup of dark molasses diluted in enough hot water to make 1-1/2 cups and I wait for it to chill before adding to the flour. I also added 1 tbsp of caraway seeds. The method and other ingredients is exactly as the original N0-knead recipe. After the first 18 hour proof, I turned the dough out onto a floured surface and sprinkle flour on top and knead it about 10 times and fold dough under into a ball and place it on greased parchment paper to let it do the second proof. I baked mine in an old squarish Corningware casserole with lid. The bread turned out nicely browned with a good crust. Because I knead it a few times, the hole is not as big (I don't like big holes in my bread). The molasses made it a little sweet and it has all the flavours of a good rye bread because of the caraway seeds and it was still moist and chewy. I was very pleased. Dorothy
Janet Kelly
· 10 months ago
Eric, I have consistent good results with the no knead basic recipe, whether I use yeast or starter. Thanks to you I've also learned how to dry and reactivate my starter. I now play with the basic recipe a bit and would like to submit pictures of some of the successful variations. How do I go about this?
Breadtopia
· 10 months ago
Hi Janet,
Please email them to me and I'll be happy to post them for you.
Some day I'll find software that will allow people to post directly, but until then it's kinda round about.
I have ww sandwich bread recipe that I've used forever, but no matter how I stored it, it just wasn't good after a couple of days. I tried King Arthur's diastatic malt powder - 1/4 teaspoon - and it has made all the difference in the world. When I fed 7 people the bread never had a chance of going stale, but with just 2 of us now, using the malt powder saves a lot of waste. I haven't tried it in the nk breads - we tend to eat those faster - lol!! Why does using Corning Ware at 500 degrees make me nervous??
MIKEE
· 10 months ago
I too am using diastatic malt powder 1/4 teaspoon or less. A little goes very far. I get great results . Better taste,much longer shelf life, and softer bread. The crust doesn't get as crisp for non rye breads. overall though its great. its not a preservative but wheat berries that are moistened and when they start to sprout they are ground and add ed with a little more wheat flour. the malting produces an enzyme which improves the dough matrix.Its completly natural. I havn't heard anything bad,
Ellen
· 10 months ago
Hi. Is it a difference between Ovalteen (sp.?) and malt powder, please? I think in one of the mail I read that this two products interchangable. Ellen.
Ellen
· 10 months ago
Sorry. This is clarification for my previous post. It should read BARLEY malt powder
Ellen
· 10 months ago
Hi. Is it a difference between Ovalteen (sp.?) and barley malt powder, please? I think in one of the mail I read that this two products interchangable. Ellen.
Dorothy Chan
· 10 months ago
Hi Ellen, Ovaltine is a malt based beverage which is similar to Horlicks. It contains malt extract, sugar, whole milk powderm, whey powder, sugar, palm oil, butter oil, oligofructose, sodium bicarbonate, and salt. I don't think you can substitute it for barley malt powder.
marc
· 10 months ago
I've not seen barley malt powder anywhere
Janet Kelly
· 10 months ago
In my search for malt powder I have only been able to find it in commercial quantities. However, malt syrup can be found in health food stores here in Canada in a 10 oz jar. Malt syrup is used extensively by European bread makers. I saw it being used in a video on French bread baking. It looks just like molasses. The baker used about 1/8 teaspoon in a rather large batch of bread. The brand of malt syrup I have been able to find is HAPPY HOME and distributed by Grain Process Enterprises Ltd., Scarborough, Ontario, Canada,M1S 3M7. They may be able to advise you.
Bob Packer
· 10 months ago
I bought malt syrup Friday at a beer brewing shop. About 3.00 USD for a half pound. Bob
tony
· 9 months ago
eric,just made nkrye and added 1 tbl molasses and 1/2 tbl of carob and it just came out great...baked it in the oval laclocle.. thanks
Eric E
· 8 months ago
I just tried to make NK rye, but using my well fed starter instead of dry yeast. I followed Joe's recipe except substituted 1/3 cup starter for the yeast. Ended up with a waaay too sticky dough, and after fermenting for 18hours and proofing for 2, it just oozed into the La cloche. Nonetheless, even though it baked only 2 inches high, it has an incredible taste, and a pretty good uneven crumb. Any suggestions, or did I mis-measure something? If using AP flour, should I add Vital Wheat Gluten?
I'd love to nail this recipe, because, as I said, it was delicious!
Wil Rice
· 8 months ago
Just got back to making bread after a couple years. I came across Eric's site and his video snagged me in. I got my old dried starter out of the freezer, kept my fingers crossed and in about a week it was back strong. Had to work with it another week, in and out of the refrig's, to get the sourness I like. Anyhow, I started right off with Joe's recipe, following Eric's video instructions. I did add 1.5 tsp of caraway, 1.5 tsp of fennel and 1 tsp of lemon juice. I put it in a small tupperware w/lid and put it in the refrig for almost 24 hours. It didn't rise at all, maybe a smigit, but it smelled great when I took it out about 8 pm the night prior to baking. My starter, true to form to when I use to bake bread, doubled the dough just over night, about 12 hours. I was afraid to go the 18 hrs, so I went ahead, layed it out on the board, folded and put into a basket sprayed and lined with wheat bran. After an hour I heated up a 7 qt Le Creuset DO at 500 deg. At 1.5 hours the dough really had not risen all that much but I knew from using my starter, it's character was/is to give a nice oven spring. I gently plopped the dough into the DO, a little off center, turned down the oven to 475 for 30 min. I took the cover off and turned the oven down to 450 but had to take the bread out after only about 7 min. I was amazed, at the loaf I got after only the first time. My wife said it was the best bread I ever made. I have already sent an order into Eric for some equipment. I don't want to keep using the DO. It is too heavy to lug around and I don't want to darken it. I am now looking at my Russian Black bread to see if I can convert it to the NK. Thanks to everybody for your postings and thanks to Eric for hooking me.
Wil
[img]NK1stRye.jpg[/img][img]NKryecrumb.jpg[/img]
Wil Rice
· 8 months ago
Sorry the pictures got sent twice, I really don't know why. Oh yes, the bread is very much an excellent rye with a just right sourness.
All Comments
I have 4 questions for you....lol...not that you're not already busy enough!!
1. What do you mean when you write :
"3/8 t Instant Yeast (that’s 1/4 t plus half of that again)"
Are you instructing to use 1/4 tsp + 1/8 tsp of SAF yeast?
2. Can we substitute bread flour for ALP flour? (I have a ton of bread flour but no ALP flour left....and I'm too pooped to go shopping again!)
3. Is there a difference in taste between Dark Rye and Light Rye?
4. I don't like caraway seeds? Can I use poopy instead? Any better or other suggestions that mix well with Rye?
Hope you are having a lovely day....it's very warm here in Toronto today...currently 66 degrees!!
Marilyn
Toronto, Canada
This isn't my recipe but I think I can answer most of your questions anyway.
Yes, 1/4 plus 1/8 tsp SAF.
Yes, use bread flour. I like it better.
Dark rye is stronger tasting.
Caraway is a very traditional flavor for rye. I like anise seed too in rye. Otherwise you can anything you want but I'm not sure what else is "normal" for rye. Maybe a little molasses?
Gorgeous here in Iowa too but the axe will fall tomorrow.
Also, I forgot to ask before, do you still coat the loaf with wheat bran as in the original no-knead recipe? Or do you coat with the seeds? Or a combination of both?
I haven't decided on the seeds yet....don't like caraway, or anise! You didn't say whether you thought poppy would work with rye....would it? What about sesame? Any other seeds you could suggest? I could always leave the seeds out of course, I just wanted the loaf to be more interesting then just plain rye.
Sorry for all the questions...."details" are important to me....that's why I procrastinate a lot....lol...!
Thanx again Eric, you're a great help to a novice like me!
Marilyn
Toronto, Canada
You can use bran or seed or a combination to prevent sticking.
As soon as you start substituting ingredients in a recipe, the recipe starts to change. Substitute enough ingredients and before long, it's not the same recipe. Go ahead and use whatever you want in this and see if you like it. I have no idea what "works" or not. It's a matter of personal taste.
One more email....I promise! I know that this is not your recipe, but just asking for your expertise.
My dad's mom was a bread baker back in Portugal. My dad told me that I should add some olive oil to my bread recipes because that is what he saw his mom doing. Also, my Portuguese mother-in-law says that a bread baker's secret ingredient is sugar.
My question to you, can/would it hurt if I added some olive oil to this rye bread recipe. If so, how much?
What about the sugar thingy....I've heard this said before by other Portuguese folk....most recently my very alert and active 90yr old aunt!! Any ideas about sugar? How much?
My 1st Rye loaf is proofing as we speak so, there is no rush here to answer me. Once I started measuring, I also noticed that there is little rye in this recipe in comparison to ALP flour. Can you knock up the rye a little?? If so, what would you suggest?
When you have time, I'd appreciate your input!
marilyn
You can certainly try adding olive oil to the dough. I'm not sure how it could hurt exactly. It might add some flavor and soften the crust. It supposedly adds to the shelf life of bread too. As for quantity, I would think add a Tbs or two and see what happens.
Add sugar if you like a sweeter tasting bread. It will give the yeast more to feed on so may help with the rise. But if you're not having a problem with rise then it's just a question of your preference for sweetness and whether or not you want more calories in your diet.
Sure, knock up the rye a little. Experiment and see what works for you. Rye has very little gluten so the more you use as a percentage of the total flour, the more dense the bread is likely to be.
Sorry that Eric had to answer all your questions on my recipe, but as usual, he nailed all the answers as I would. I would just add one thing to his comments since you're set on making additions and/or substitutions to the recipe, and this is something I do as a matter of routine with a new recipe. Make it once according to the recipe to see if you like the end result. If you like it, then you can start to tweak it to meet your particular taste, but if you start changing it before trying it according to the base recipe, then you may be disappointed, and it won't be the fault of the original recipe.
Seasoned bakers can look at a recipe and pretty much tell how it's going to come out. I have made well over 100 loaves of no-knead bread of many varieties, and I can look at a new no-knead recipe and give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. BUT, I couldn't do that when I first started making bread. So, try the base recipe, do research on what different ingredients in bread do for the bread (tons of free info on the Internet), and then you can start experimenting on your own. Do a Google search for bread making ingredients, and learn in depth what each does before adding it to your recipe.
Lastly, you seemed disappointed at the low amount of rye flour in this recipe. Rye and wheat flours are heavy flours that do not raise well, which is why I increased the yeast to 3//8 t. If you want more fiber (rye or wheat) read up on using Vital Wheat Gluten as an alternative to increasing the yeast for leavening.
So much to learn, so little time. Hope this helps, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.
Joe
Thank you so much for your generous email. I did make my first Rye loaf and followed your recipe. The only change was with the caraway seeds. I don't much like caraway and so I just used them as a coating on the crust. The caraway gave off a nice aroma while it baked, but all the seeds fell off easily. I just had to pick up the loaf and a bunch fell off. Opps! I only proofed for 15 hours (did not time it out properly as I forgot that I had an appointment to go to at the 18 hr mark). So, it was either proof for 15 hrs or 22 hrs, so I chose the first. My rise was very high in fact and I was really happy with the end result. Not only did it taste great, my 4 yr old, 18 mnth old and husband ate it no problem!
This no-knead baking is great, it is really satisfying watching your family eat your freshly baked loaf of bread, especially since it is so easy and you know your ingredients.
Having baked many loaves yourself, you must have tried Eric's Steel Cut Oats recipe. It is one of my favourites!!! It is healthy, tasty and easy to make! I bake it, slice and freeze it and then toast the individual slices when we’re ready to eat them. One loaf (round or oblong) can last for over 1 week….great for the kids’ breakfasts and snacks.
I really liked your rye loaf and will continue making it as your recipe instructs when I make it for the kids. However, I would like a denser, wetter loaf with more rye. By how much should I increase the Rye? Your recipe calls for 3 cups of flour in total. Do I just keep the 3 cups maximum and just fiddle around with the proportion of rye to wheat? Would 3 cups of Rye be edible? Would it bake ok? Should I decrease the yeast a bit? (I use SAF instant yeast and bake in either a round or oblong La Cloche at 500 degrees for 30 minutes covered and 475 degrees for 15-25 minutes uncovered). I'd like to make this for my dad. He really likes those heavy, dense, wet Rye bread loaves that come already thinly sliced and packaged in a plastic bag (often Hungarian, German brands). What do you recommend?
Again, thank you for all your help!
Marilyn
Toronto, Canada
I have a suggestion for you, for a denser, wetter loaf. Make a Corn Rye!
You do this by adding corn meal (cooked first) and some mashed potatoes.
Very traditional Eastern European.
Experiment with the quantities, but here's a rough guide for mine:
4 C flour (2 1/2 AP or bread flour and 1 1/2 Rye or any combo you prefer)
1 TBSP instant yeast
1 -2 TBSP wheat gluten if you use AP flour (1 TBSP for each C of rye flour, approximately - not necessary if you use Bread Flour)
1 C mashed potatoes (use a ricer or whipped - no lumps!)
1/2 C cold water
6 TBSP corn meal
1 C boiling water
1 TBSP vinegar (I really like Seasoned Rice Vinegar)
Kosher salt
2 TBSP olive oil
caraway seeds (optional for you)
mix the 1/2 C cold water and the corn meal together in a saucepan. Add the 1 C boiling water and cook over medium/high heat, for 2 minutes, stirring constantly. Take it off heat and stir in the 2 TBSP olive oil. Let cool down to room temp.
Stir in the vinegar.
Mix together the flours, wheat gluten, salt, the yeast, then add in the mashed potatoes. Mix in the cooled down corn mush.
It will be kind of dry, but don't worry, it will hydrate a lot while resting in the refrigerator.
Grease a bowl or plastic container, dump in the dough, grease the top, cover it and let it rest overnight.
Take it out 1-2 hours before you want to bake it.
I form it into a round loaf shape right out of the refrigerator, then let it rise at room temperature until I think the dough is no longer cold inside. I recommend at least 1 hour. Watch out it doesn't over proof, since there is a lot of yeast working.
Then, use the standard NKB technique; bake in preheated covered dutch oven for 30 minutes, then uncover and bake for 15 minutes more. Check the internal temperature and make sure you are not going over 200 degrees. You need to bake it uncovered for a total of about 20-30 minutes and you do NOT want the temperature to go over 210 (at which point the water will boil and you will get gummy texture) So, if you check it at 15 minutes (uncovered) and the internal temp is up around 195+, turn down the oven to 350 so you can bake an additional 10-15 minutes and get up to 210, but not over.
Many people put a glaze on it, and then sprinkle with caraway seeds. I don't, as I like them inside.
Figuring out how much extra time you need to bake the loaf is a combo of how cold the interior dough still is (hopefully, not cold), how wet your dough is, and also how tall your loaf is. If you put it into a constraining pan for it's rise phase, and it rises up, not spreads out, it will take longer to bake, than if you let it rise on a flat surface, it spreads out, and even with oven spring, your loaf is only 2 inches high.
HTH,
beth (baking in Florida mostly)
Hope you can help me as I love rye bread. Thanks
E McKown, Clearwater, Fl
First, no-knead bread recipes are meant to be baked in covered vessels like dutch ovens, Pyrex bowls with lids and Corningware casserole dishes of 3.5 qt capacity ad larger. Ordinary bread pans are not an acceptable alternative, and without more specifics about time, temperature and adherence to the recipe, I can't venture a guess as to why you had such poor results from this very forgiving recipe. I might suggest going back to the base video on the homepage, and review the procedures.
Joe
Good luck,
Dave
I've been having fun and success beyond my expectations. I made my first rye loaf last night. Yum!
Here's what I did:
1 ½ C (7 ½ ozs) Rye Flour
3 2/5 C (8 ½ ozs) Bread or Never Bleached AP Flour
1 ½ tsp salt
1-2 Tbl Caraway seeds ground or whole
½ C sour dough starter (mine is very dry)
1 ½ C luke warm pure water
Follow No Knead basic recipe. Dough should barely incorporate water with starter diluted in it.
Let rise until doubled in any combination of counter top and fridge. I set aside dough on counter top for 3 hours, then fridge for 24 hours, then counter top for another 8 hours.
Scrape dough onto floured surface, fold then rest for 15 minutes.
Cut off 1/3 of dough for top braid (optional), lightly shape into log and place in parchment lined loaf pan. Braid extra piece of dough, place on top of loaf and let rise for another 90mins in warm placed covered with either greased plastic or linen towel (a microwave with the light on is ideal)
Preheat oven to 350` for another 30mins.
Bake for 60mins, tenting loaf after 30-40mins (don’t let top get too brown before tenting) or until interior temperature is 190-200` Another test is tapping bottom of loaf, hollow sound indicates doneness.
Let cool for 5mins, brush butter over top for shiny finish. Let cool another hour. Enjoy.
Catherine
Today I tried a rye bread. I used your basic no knead rye recipe. Feeling experimental I added 1/3 cup of starter to the recipe along with the 1/4 tsp SAF instant yeast. (OOPS) Being an onion rye lover I put 1/4 cup caramelized onion pieces in the dough. (Then I found the page where someone else did the same thing) This one doubled in just under 3 hours at room temp. I quickly put it in the fridge overnight. Today I let it sit at room temp for 3 hours before turning it out onto the counter and giving it a few turns and folds as in the C.I. method. put it in the brotform and in 2 hours it filled the basket (doubled) Baked for 30 min 500 covered, 15 minutes uncovered at 400 then 15 minutes oven off and door ajar as in Rick's recipe.
The crust came out great, the crumb is moist and has a good texture. The weiredest part is, the caramelized onion gave the loaf a 'sweet' taste in spite of the sourdough starter.
All in all, a very successful experiment. My number 1 critic (my wife) gave it a 'thumbs up'
Thanks for a really great site. I look forward to new recipes.
Okay,,, I consider my rye bread a success.. (looks and tastes great). Now I have a question.
Considering the fact that I over did the leavening by using both a starter and some instant yeast, this bread more than doubled in just under 4 hours at room temp. If I had just punched it down and put it in the proofing basket for a second rise and then tried to bake it, would that have worked?
I put it in the fridge and slowed down the rise overnight under the impression that the flavor needed some to develop. Am I mistaken?
If you're going to have a problem, there are much worse ones. :)
It's nice when your "mistakes" still look and taste great.
Punching down again might have worked given how lively it was. But the fridge technique is a better one.
Flour will naturally whiten as it ages, but this can be a costly process. In manufacturing we called it "sitting on inventory," and I've read that naturally aged bread flour performs somewhat better than fresh flour. You'll have to Google that one for yourself.
King Arthur Flour ages its flour naturally, which is why you pay more (almost twice) for their product. The endosperm in the flour has a natural yellow pigment which whitens over time as it is exposed to the atmosphere, and their flour will give a whiter appearance to your bread. Some flour manufacturers speed up this whitening process using chemical bleaching, and they can also speed up the aging process using potassium bromate.
Personally, I don't want either product in my bread or baked goods if I have a choice, and I don't care that the color is not brilliant white.
Your finished loaves may be off color (you don't say what color they are) from the long fermentation process. If you have well water with lot's of minerals in it, that will alter the color. Eric recommends purified water, but filtered water will work as well if that's your situation. Your honey is also a factor in color, especially if it's a dark honey. One tablespoon can easily alter the color of 2# of flour.
Lastly, I'm curious about your formula. I often make a double recipe by weight, and here is my formula:
2# All purpose flour (unbleached & unbromated)
3/8 teaspoon SAF Instant Yeast
1 Tablespoon salt
26 oz. water
Your formula only calls for 18 oz of water, but even if you add in the 1 T OF Honey as liquid, you are still at only 53% hydration. Your dough is SUPPOSED to be slack, with 75-80% hydration as the norm. If your fingers don't get sticky from handling this dough, it's not wet enough. It's NOT supposed to be like ordinary bread dough. Also, the sugar in the honey will speed up the fermentation process, so you need 50% less yeast than you are now using.
Go back to the base video and follow the recipe and the process exactly as shown, and your finished product should improve. Oh, and don't be concerned with the color. It's not important. If you want snow white crumb, you'll have to go to the grocery store and buy bread that's made to look pretty. But be prepared for all the additives and preservatives that go into it so it can sit on the shelf and not spoil quickly in your bread box.
Joe
I'm glad your results are better by going back to the base recipe, even though you've cut the hydration to less than 70%. What's the reason you are adding sweeteners to this bread? Do you realize you are accelerating the fermentation process with the sugars? Personally, I would rather add sweetener after the bread is baked, something like jelly, jam or even fresh honey.
The French bread pan is made for french bread, and cannot give the same results as a covered vessel. If it works for you and you're happy, that's great, but you appear fixated on making this recipe under your own terms and conditions without making it exactly as the recipe describes.
I have a water bottle dedicated to spaying the inside of my oven and spraying bread. I use the oil mister with EVOO without problem. Maybe it's the Wesson.
Lastly, please turn off your caps. All capital letters mean that you are angry or that you are screaming.
Thanks, Alex
Englewood,CO
Bread storage is a no win topic for me, because I know that each area of the country experiences different climates, and each home has somewhat different internal environmental conditions. To make a broad recommendation would certainly bring challenges from other areas of the country, and in the case of this website, from other parts of the WORLD! Now that that is out of the way I will tell you this. All of my no-knead breads last me about 4-5 days and are eaten by that time. I have no experience with shelf life beyond that time frame, save my tried & true method of cutting the breads into slices and storing them in a plastic bag in the freezer. I remove as many slices as needed, then nuke them to thaw them out. You'll notice I don't give a time in the nuke, and that's because different microwave ovens have different levels of intensity. 20 second in one oven would require only 15 in another, and 35 in yet another. You need to find this out on your own. You can also thaw them in a toaster oven if you wish.
The only time you will get perfect crumb and crust is the day you make the bread. If that's critically important to you I would suggest baking daily and you will be a happy guy. Once it goes in a plastic bag the crust softens. Since I toast most of my bread, the crust re-crisps in the toaster. Flavor is most important to me, and I've learned to live with less than perfect crust. There are too many more important things in life to be concerned about, like fishing or taking a well deserved afternoon nap.
I rotate my finished bread stock in my freezer so that there is never a loaf older than about 10-14 days in there. In my opinion this insures that when you thaw out the bread it will be in very good condition to be served, or to be given to someone as a gift.
I do not use any commercial preservatives in any of my breads. The only preservatives are natural oils, butter and salt, which serve to extend the shelf life a bit longer than without them. If you really want long shelf life, you might as well just buy the store bread which list way too many ingredients for my liking. My breads have flour (unbleached and unbromated), water, salt, yeast, and optionally butter, olive oil, sugar, eggs, whole grain cereals, nuts & seeds and dried fruits. If I have a hard time pronouncing an ingredient, I'm pretty sure I don't want it in my bread or my body. I'm not interested in bread that will live longer on the shelf than I will. Personally, I believe lots of these shelf life chemicals and preservatives are causing more problems that they are doing any good. IMO, if you want to have something last longer, it will probably kill you sooner. that's just my opinion.
I don't know if that answers your storage question adequately, but that's what my experiences have been. In a nutshell, if you can't eat the whole loaf in 3-5 days, freeze half of it and it will be just fine. Otherwise, bake daily and the bread will be as perfect as you can make it.
Joe
If you follow the recipe, you will get a shaggy dough that cannot be kneaded by hand. This is the nature of all No-Knead breads. You don't need to alter the recipe at all, just follow it and it will come out fine for you. I would suggest you watch the original No-Knead video that Eric made so you recall what the dough is supposed to look like after 12-18 hours. If you begin to alter the recipe you will either get a brick or soup for dough, and you will not be happy with the results.
Patience, my friend, patience. As I've told others, do exactly as a recipe says and when you've got that dialed in you can start to experiment with it. Of course, when you see how good it comes out you may want to just leave it alone and enjoy the bread.
Joe
Thank you for responding, I have watched all the videos and followed the recipe, I think I was a little careless with my measurements and didnt have enough flour, beacuse my second attempt turned out great :)
Thank you, Alex
I took a couple of pictures but not sure how to post them I guess Ill send them to breadtopia.
<img src="http://www.breadtopia.com/uploads/Image/AlexRye.jpg" alt="Alex Rye Bread" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="450" height="338">
</img><img src="http://www.breadtopia.com/uploads/Image/AlexRye2.jpg" alt="Alex Rye Bread" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="450" height="338"></img>
Joe
I cannot get the link to post here.
Email me at my address directly and I will send it to you.
Bob
thanks ray
It's regular white wheat flour only with a high protein content. All purpose flour runs about 9-11% protein and bread flour about 14%.
The packaging usually indicates if it's bread flour. If not, you can tell by the number of grams of protein per serving on the nutritional contents label. Only I can't remember off hand what those figures look like for bread flour vs all purpose.
When I run out of bread flour for a recipe that "requires" bread flour, I add Vital Wheat Gluten to the All Purpose flour.
Bob
thanks again ray
thanks
Eric, I love your video's and your site. You helped me a lot.
If I may I have very basic questions.
What is "over proof" and its consequences?
What is "oven spring", its effect on cooked bread, and how to achieve the best one?
As a rule my bread is rising horizontally. I made the "Sicilian bread". It came out OK, but it was heavy, wide, looking like flat cylinder.
Any suggestion, how to improve my technique, please?
Thank you.
Over proofing is letting the dough rise too long so that the yeast consumes too much of the available nutrients and the dough starts to lose some of its rise or at least doesn't rise more when baked.
Oven spring is the rapid increase in the volume of a bread during the first few minutes of baking. I find I get the best oven spring when I place the proofed dough in a hot oven before the dough has reached its maximum rise. Before it has over proofed ;).
The wetter the dough, the more it has a tendency to flatten out. You can stiffen up the dough by adding more flour at the beginning of the recipe.
Thank You so much for posting this worry-free recipe!
A bit late here in responding. I was hoping someone else who knows of other ways would answer. Egg wash might be the most effective way but I know some use just water or milk. And yes, it's applied before baking.
I just made a loaf using 5-1/2 oz. of dark rye flour and 10 oz. of non-bleached A/P flour, 3/8 tsp of yeast, 1/4 cup of dark molasses diluted in enough hot water to make 1-1/2 cups and I wait for it to chill before adding to the flour. I also added 1 tbsp of caraway seeds. The method and other ingredients is exactly as the original N0-knead recipe. After the first 18 hour proof, I turned the dough out onto a floured surface and sprinkle flour on top and knead it about 10 times and fold dough under into a ball and place it on greased parchment paper to let it do the second proof. I baked mine in an old squarish Corningware casserole with lid. The bread turned out nicely browned with a good crust. Because I knead it a few times, the hole is not as big (I don't like big holes in my bread). The molasses made it a little sweet and it has all the flavours of a good rye bread because of the caraway seeds and it was still moist and chewy. I was very pleased.
Dorothy
I have consistent good results with the no knead basic recipe, whether I use yeast or starter. Thanks to you I've also learned how to dry and reactivate my starter. I now play with the basic recipe a bit and would like to submit pictures of some of the successful variations. How do I go about this?
Please email them to me and I'll be happy to post them for you.
Some day I'll find software that will allow people to post directly, but until then it's kinda round about.
Thanks
Breadtopia Edit: See Janet's photo and comments on the no knead recipe variations page.
ed with a little more wheat flour. the malting produces an enzyme which improves the dough matrix.Its completly natural. I havn't heard anything bad,
Is it a difference between Ovalteen (sp.?) and malt powder, please?
I think in one of the mail I read that this two products interchangable.
Ellen.
This is clarification for my previous post. It should read BARLEY malt powder
Is it a difference between Ovalteen (sp.?) and barley malt powder, please?
I think in one of the mail I read that this two products interchangable.
Ellen.
Ovaltine is a malt based beverage which is similar to Horlicks. It contains malt extract, sugar, whole milk powderm, whey powder, sugar, palm oil, butter oil, oligofructose, sodium bicarbonate, and salt. I don't think you can substitute it for barley malt powder.
Bob
of carob and it just came out great...baked it in the oval laclocle..
thanks
I'd love to nail this recipe, because, as I said, it was delicious!
Wil
[img]NK1stRye.jpg[/img][img]NKryecrumb.jpg[/img]
Wil